Curse

Ninna · Aug 22, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forjo

Uneven spread of server population is definitely a problem on MMOs that use servers. But those MMOs allow you to move your character, albeit for a fee, and the don't charge for character slots if you simply want to create a new character on a heavily populated server.

To each his own, obviously.

this discussion really belongs in GW vs WoW thread but to add commentary

I've done both and I agree its more or less the same cash

Historically, I have done 6 WoW xfers to the tune of $150.00
($25.00 per xfer)

I've also paid for 12 extra GW character slots for $120.00

there is one defining difference tho,
1 GW slot = lifetime
1 WoW Transfer = good until want to change servers again

manitoba1073 · Aug 23, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

I told you where they were so I think you're the one with a reading comprehension problem *shrug*

Still irrelevant, we're not discussing WoW nor are we discussing a press release by WoW. This is about the fact that a new startup without an established franchise managed to generate $120 million (rough estimate based on game price) in 2 years with a unique business model for MMO's.

Still dont see why this would 'bruise gw ego's'. WoW is bigger, so what, Microsoft is bigger then Anet too, that does not invalidate that GW is an unqualified sucess as a business venture.

funny unless saying you wrote the link in invisible internet I just dont see the link you mentioned you put. All you did was refference it saying Jim Strain said it. Dont believe me here you go, but you need new glasses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

One shared by the gaming industry pundits, NcSoft and Arenanet and their shareholders. I think we can safely say that the only opinion that matters in this is theirs, not yours.

Based on what? Not nerfing your favorite skill?

The 4 million comes from Jeff Strain in a recent interview with Gamespot if I recall correctly. As for the rest...*shrug*

If it wasnt doing well NcSoft would kill GW off, they're in it for the money not fanboism.

PS: I've been reading this forum pretty much daily for close to 2 years.

cellardweller · Aug 23, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Lets assume for a second that everyone is like me, partially because its a glorious utiopia that everyone should aspire to, but mostly because it allows us to do some extrapolating to make a guestimate about the active GW population with some actual (if flimsy) basis.

Currently the GW community is maxing the favour selected titles at around 1 per 3minutes. I, as an individual am maxing those same titles at about 1 every 8 weeks. So, assuming everyone one else is like me (and who wouldn't want to be) that would put the active GW community somewhere around the 250k mark. Of course, anyone standing in a town can tell you that almost all the titles being achieved are SS and LB, so perhaps its better to say that there are approximately 250k active nightfall players.

DreamRunner · Aug 23, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forjo

No, I understood what you meant. And you are correct, any Guild Wars player, via the International Districts, can play with any other Guild Wars player.

Uneven spread of server population is definitely a problem on MMOs that use servers. But those MMOs allow you to move your character, albeit for a fee, and the don't charge for character slots if you simply want to create a new character on a heavily populated server.

-Forjo

If you understood what I meant and now say I am correct when you said I was wrong before? I'm lost. If I am wrong or you are disagreeing about saying I said, then I would like to know what.

A fee when you already pay per month. You pay to play, yet move money to play on another server. Just total money grabbing if you ask me, but if people want to spend there money like that, fine.

xshadowwolfx · Aug 23, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Assume we have 4 million games sold and 3 million of them are additional games, players who quit, and bots.

This is being really hard on the number of players as I believe its much more but 1 million players is still VERY impressive if you look at any other MMORPG.

bwillcox · Aug 24, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forjo

Wrong.

There definitely have been gold sales ads in local chat. I've seen them.

At least in LOTRO you can report the spammer without switching out of the game.

-Forjo

No, I'm not wrong. I DO NOT see gold spammers in local chat (I did not say that it never happens, I would have no way of knowing that). The (possible) fact that you do, does not change what I said. I see gold spammers in LOTRO every time I play (and get in game mail spam for gold).

Forjo · Aug 24, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If you understood what I meant and now say I am correct when you said I was wrong before? I'm lost. If I am wrong or you are disagreeing about saying I said, then I would like to know what.

A fee when you already pay per month. You pay to play, yet move money to play on another server. Just total money grabbing if you ask me, but if people want to spend there money like that, fine.

You clipped out the part where I explained that. I acknowledged that players can play with any other player (even easier now with the new patch). I then stated that the ability to play with any other player doesn't make up for the difficulty in finding other players to play with.

It sounds like you are simply arguing for argument's sake. I may be wrong, and if so I apologize. I have stated my opinion that grouping is easier in WoW and LotRO. You cited server division as an impediment. I cited lack of grouping tools and instancing as GREATER impediments. I leave it to the reader to decide for him or herself.

-Forjo

Forjo · Aug 24, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwillcox

No, I'm not wrong. I DO NOT see gold spammers in local chat (I did not say that it never happens, I would have no way of knowing that). The (possible) fact that you do, does not change what I said. I see gold spammers in LOTRO every time I play (and get in game mail spam for gold).

Wow, a bunch of hair splitters.

When one states, as you do, that "I DO NOT see gold spammers in local chat" it is as evidence of the opinion of the speaker that it does not happen. If you do not mean to suggest that it does not happen in Guild Wars, then why make the statement at all?

I responded to the meaning behind the statement and stated that I have seen gold seller advertisements [in Guild Wars]. To construe that response to mean that YOU never have seen one is a mere argument tactic. Any intelligent person would know that I can't know what you have or have not seen. That person would also understand that I'm simply stating contradictory experience to support my position that LoTRO is not alone in being spammed by gold sellers.

Gold spammers get their message across wherever they have a market. The fact that you see them more in LoTRO indicates the increased ease of communication. In LoTRO you can search users on the entire server by level, area, class and whether they are looking for a group. It's no wonder that you get an occasional whisper (LoTRO calls it a /tell). LoTRO also allows you to report that whisper in-game with only 15-20 seconds of effort.

And it's interesting that you cite the in-game e-mail system -- which GW doesn't even have.

Oh, and by they way, if you need more opinions, look at this thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10187571

-Forjo

Solas · Aug 24, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Guild Wars may or may not have more gold sellers, but it's near undeniable that Guild Wars has a higher concentration of Gold Sellers.

Example, using somewhat random numbers. Let's say that Guild Wars has...1,000 bot acounts, and WoW has 10,000 bot accounts. Assuming Guild Wars has an active playerbase of...maybe 100,000 (and that's being generous), that's 1% bots, whereas in WoW, with its 9,000,000 player base, that's 0.11% bots.

Significantly different.

Some what random numbers yeah?
so you say 9 million wow subs with only 10,000 bots

GW with around 100,000 active players, so lets say the 4 million games sold are like this: ( and lets say this includes gwen too, jsut for ease)
thats roughly 1 million people buying all 3+ gwen campaigns and then 90% of them quiting, to make up the active members.

pretty odd logic there
+ i love the way you use the 9 million wow subs in this "Example, using somewhat random numbers" to make the "bot numbers" down to >1%

unless you made it as such that you'd pick a base number that had WoW and GW proportional and the rough but fair bot list proportional then its a proper way to go.

im not saying GW has More/LEss gold famers/bots then WoW form the above,just a point.

about the bots and goldfarmers, in my 3 month exp. of WoW i have gotten many pm's from gold selling bots promotign sites, pm's damnit, also they are in towns a nice bit too. in my 12 month exp. of guild wars i have seen maybe a handful or 2 of them in game.

GW bots seen greater as there are more concentrated in outposts, as in wow its free roaming area so harder to notive them in a small group but in altrum or the likes 20 at same time seems alot.

as for the

DreamRunner · Aug 25, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forjo

You clipped out the part where I explained that. I acknowledged that players can play with any other player (even easier now with the new patch). I then stated that the ability to play with any other player doesn't make up for the difficulty in finding other players to play with.

It sounds like you are simply arguing for argument's sake. I may be wrong, and if so I apologize. I have stated my opinion that grouping is easier in WoW and LotRO. You cited server division as an impediment. I cited lack of grouping tools and instancing as GREATER impediments. I leave it to the reader to decide for him or herself.

-Forjo

You agree'd to what my point is, and so did Bryant, which I was not expecting. OK, cool. But to your point other point I do think WoW's global LFG system is decent. I left WoW in patch 1.9 so I never got to experience it, but I think it really saved it since before you had to have cities to get people and then meeting stones which was an epic fail. However, I honestly think its based upon experience.

I like to argue. But I do it because its fun and I think its the best way to bring a point across. But I don't intentionally do it just to provoke people. Unlike some other trolls I know on this board.

As to your last sentence, I agree, although sometimes addiction can play a huge part. But that really applies to any game.

Bryant Again · Aug 25, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

You agree'd to what my point is, and so did Bryant, which I was not expecting.

: o

So you're point was that neither game was better off? I agreed with you this whole time???

4ssassin · Aug 25, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

I posted a request on Gaile's talk page asking how many people are active, go inactive every month (thats 1 month without playing in my terms) and join every month.

Asked over a week ago, still no response.

Forjo · Aug 25, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ssassin

I posted a request on Gaile's talk page asking how many people are active, go inactive every month (thats 1 month without playing in my terms) and join every month.

Asked over a week ago, still no response.

Good luck with that. I doubt Anet will ever admit to how many (or few) active users there are.

If they release GW:EN sales figures, it'll be more indicative of active players. Bots and professional farmers won't buy it and inactives (like me) won't either.

Of course, they know that. So unless there's some SEC requirement, I doubt we'll ever know.

In the end analysis, it really doesn't matter. As long as Anet's stockholders are happy and they are able to pay their bills and keep going, they are successful. I wish them the best.

But I have moved on to something that suites me better -- a much more open development environment where players can easily see that they affect the development process. If you are curious, go to the LotRO forums home page and click the Dev tracker link. You'll get a glimpse of just how involved developers can be if they choose.

And for those wondering why I still post? Guild Wars was my first MMO, and I have enjoyed MANY hours of play within it's world. Due to several changes and non-improvements that I won't go into here, and to my perception of the attitude of Gaile Gray and the development team, I now play another game more suited to my tastes. But I still have hopes that one day Anet will address enough of my concerns so that once again Guild Wars will be enjoyable for me. To that end, I post sometimes constructive and sometimes complaining messages.

I hope I'm not wasting my time.

-Forjo

DreamRunner · Aug 25, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

: o

So you're point was that neither game was better off? I agreed with you this whole time???

Just this on what you said. "Guild Wars may have more people and easier connectivity for people you know"

But hey, I'm seeing more and more people in the WoW forums on wanting to merge servers because of low population, which is a shame. Seeing people play with a server with less than 10k, its disgusting on how blizzard boast there advisements with the big 9 million number. But then what puts bad taste in my mouth is that you have pay to transfer to another server when you already pay to play, it really seems to me money grabbing.

But I do agree that persistent worlds gives advantages over instanced worlds and also has many disadvantages. Although personally, I've seen that instance worlds out weigh the persistent.

DreamRunner · Aug 25, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Oh GWG, lag here and everywhere.

The Herbalizer · Aug 25, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I would say out of my friends and me constantly deleting friends of f-list a few hundred of them have gone inactive. Thats just me alone.

I would say a huge chunk is inactive. If your guild does not kick people for inactivity you can see how many people are inactive.

Kinda incredible numbers.

4 million sales. Wow thats great, shame a huge chunk of that dont play...

Njaiguni Blaze · Aug 25, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwillcox

No, I'm not wrong. I DO NOT see gold spammers in local chat (I did not say that it never happens, I would have no way of knowing that). The (possible) fact that you do, does not change what I said. I see gold spammers in LOTRO every time I play (and get in game mail spam for gold).

Go to the International District of the Great Temple of Balthazar and witness gold selling ads. No pm's though.

bluesoulsearcher · Aug 25, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

It's funny, because I think only a handful of people got the real point of Anet hitting the 4 million mark. It's not about the number of active accounts. It's not about the number of players. It's not about the number/percentage of bots. It's not about the number of stolen accounts. It's not about whether GW is better/worse/equal when compared to WoW/EQ/etc.

It's about a business model that has succeeded, which should be good news to anyone who enjoys playing GW. It's about GW continuing without going to a subscription model. It's about people being able to play a game with no additional cost after the initial purchase.

One might argue I am a GW fanboy. I am not. I am a Fallout fanboy. As such, I cannot begin to relate the disappointment of an outstanding game failing because of failure at the corporate level. It means you get hooked on a game, enjoy every minute of it, but then sit through a sequel-less drought lasting years, seeing the number of players slowly dwindle down to nothing.

So, congratulations to Anet for a job well-planned and executed, and here is to years more of great GW gameplay.

The Herbalizer · Aug 26, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

IMO the numbers speak for themselves when comparing GW to WoW.

8.5 million WoW subscribers. Blizzard defines subscribers as those paying for WoW and have been active in one month. GW has err 4 million sales...

2.4 million copies of WoW TBC were sold on the 1st day of release O__o

http://www.spawnpoint.com/games/prof...ING_SALES_PACE

Njaiguni Blaze · Aug 26, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesoulsearcher

It's funny, because I think only a handful of people got the real point of Anet hitting the 4 million mark. It's not about the number of active accounts. It's not about the number of players. It's not about the number/percentage of bots. It's not about the number of stolen accounts. It's not about whether GW is better/worse/equal when compared to WoW/EQ/etc.

It's about a business model that has succeeded, which should be good news to anyone who enjoys playing GW. It's about GW continuing without going to a subscription model. It's about people being able to play a game with no additional cost after the initial purchase.

One might argue I am a GW fanboy. I am not. I am a Fallout fanboy. As such, I cannot begin to relate the disappointment of an outstanding game failing because of failure at the corporate level. It means you get hooked on a game, enjoy every minute of it, but then sit through a sequel-less drought lasting years, seeing the number of players slowly dwindle down to nothing.

So, congratulations to Anet for a job well-planned and executed, and here is to years more of great GW gameplay.

Well said.
(frikking 12 character rule)